diff options
authorMart Raudsepp <>2018-11-13 22:59:22 +0200
committerMart Raudsepp <>2018-11-13 22:59:22 +0200
commit741552eb3ed50016fc3a3f2f5216e84aa23105e6 (patch)
parentcouncil/meeting-logs: add 20181014 logs summary (diff)
council/meeting-logs: add 20181111 raw log
Signed-off-by: Mart Raudsepp <>
2 files changed, 158 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/meeting-logs/20181111.txt b/meeting-logs/20181111.txt
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+[21:00:17] <@leio> Meeting time
+[21:00:25] <@leio> !proj council
+[21:00:25] <+willikins> ( dilfridge, k_f, leio, slyfox, ulm, whissi, williamh
+[21:00:34] <@leio> Agenda:
+[21:00:39] <@leio> 1. Roll call
+[21:00:41] -*- leio here
+[21:00:43] -*- slyfox here
+[21:00:44] -*- K_F here
+[21:00:46] -*- WilliamH here
+[21:00:46] -*- ulm here
+[21:00:48] -*- Whissi here
+[21:01:12] *** Mode #gentoo-council +v blueness by ChanServ
+[21:01:27] <@leio> dilfridge: ping
+[21:01:41] <@dilfridge> here
+[21:02:08] <@leio> Moving on with our packed schedule
+[21:02:16] <@leio> 2. Open bugs with council involvement
+[21:02:20] <@Whissi> Let's start with the easy one :p
+[21:02:25] <@leio> bug 637328
+[21:02:28] <+willikins> leio: "GLEP 14 needs to be updated"; Documentation, GLEP Changes; IN_P; mgorny:security
+[21:02:31] <@Whissi> Security project didn't meet between last council meeting and today. So no progress here. :/
+[21:02:42] -*- dilfridge kicks some security a...
+[21:03:07] <@ulm> dilfridge: 4th point of contact :)
+[21:03:11] <@K_F> if people stopped wasting time with requirements for copyright lines, there might be more time for other things :)
+[21:04:23] <@leio> Can we finally have news soon still?
+[21:04:46] <@K_F> we're discussing it, things are happening, things are not ready
+[21:05:03] <@leio> Is there a security meeting date set?
+[21:05:10] <@Whissi> No :D
+[21:05:14] <@K_F> no, but discussion is ongoing on alias anyways
+[21:06:16] <@leio> But that's not as efficient as everyone being able to discuss it in real time; anyways, next bug then..
+[21:06:24] <@leio> bug 642072
+[21:06:26] <+willikins> leio: "[Tracker] Copyright policy"; Gentoo Council, unspecified; IN_P; mgorny:council
+[21:06:30] <@leio> still just a tracker, I presume?
+[21:06:35] <@K_F> in many ways it is far _more_ efficient, as it allows more thought out discussion
+[21:06:43] <@K_F> but right..
+[21:06:45] <@ulm> yes, still a tracker
+[21:06:57] <@dilfridge> we could start a security glep working group
+[21:07:17] <@leio> we can have more than one active working group?
+[21:07:40] <@leio> next up, bug 670702
+[21:07:43] <+willikins> leio: "sys-apps/util-linux-2.33: Header does not comply with GLEP 76"; Gentoo Linux, Current packages; CONF; ulm:base-system
+[21:08:04] <@leio> I guess we can discuss some, but we aren't voting anything today, wasn't in time for agenda and people to properly prepare
+[21:08:20] <@ulm> right, I think we shouldn't take any action on it today
+[21:08:52] -*- ulm will resubmit for next month
+[21:08:53] <@WilliamH> robbat2's suggestion is interesting, see the end of the bug.
+[21:09:35] <@leio> yeah, 25 minutes ago hasn't really allowed for that yet
+[21:09:50] <@WilliamH> The way I see it is a tag in the commit with the copyright notice...
+[21:09:52] <@ulm> WilliamH: but would you be ok with using the simplified attribution, if your company was listed in an AUTHORS file?
+[21:10:17] <@WilliamH> I can't answer that. I can't speak for them.
+[21:11:23] <@leio> Have they approved GLEP 76?
+[21:11:39] <@WilliamH> I'm hearing that they *probably* wuld accept that.
+[21:11:44] <@WilliamH> would *
+[21:12:05] <@ulm> can you find that out until the december meeting?
+[21:12:32] <@leio> maybe they'd be happy with company e-mail in authors, instead of all this copyright notice stuff..
+[21:12:41] <@ulm> basically it would be the chromium model
+[21:13:04] <+robbat2> leio: chromium model can have both company name AND author name in the AUTHORS file
+[21:13:18] <@leio> under "authors" I meant git commit author
+[21:13:19] <@WilliamH> I don't think I will be the one to ask, but put the information on the bug and we'll follow up.
+[21:14:09] <@ulm> WilliamH: it's already there, in robbat2's comments
+[21:14:21] <@leio> (they are currently using as author for work time too)
+[21:14:22] <@dilfridge> err
+[21:14:34] <@dilfridge> anything that needs to be asked from a legal department
+[21:14:46] <@dilfridge> needs to be nicely packaged and ultra-clear
+[21:14:56] <@WilliamH> That's still a maybe without a definite answer from them.
+[21:15:06] <@dilfridge> pointing to a bug comment with n alternatives makes no sense
+[21:15:33] <@WilliamH> Using is actually being discussed Leio
+[21:15:42] <@ulm> robbat2: could we talk later and work out a concrete proposal?
+[21:16:02] <+robbat2> (point here: simply doesn't say which division of Sony holds the copyright)
+[21:16:46] <+robbat2> i'm ok to defer for further discussion, and let everybody continue to use multi-line attributions pending cleanup
+[21:16:47] <@dilfridge> (rolling eyes) which part of mordor precisely?
+[21:16:53] <@ulm> presumably would be company e-mail, plus Copyright: or Copyright-by: tag in the commit message
+[21:16:55] <@leio> I guess the AUTHORS file could say (with date ranges if needed) as a mapping, basically. But at that point that tag idea is probably simpler
+[21:16:55] <@K_F> robbat2: I could see that being relevant for subsidiaries, but if division I'm not sure if it matters
+[21:17:07] <@K_F> as the legal entity would be the same
+[21:17:19] <+robbat2> K_F: division/subsidiary becomes vague with megacorps
+[21:17:37] <@K_F> but it isn't really our problem to sort out, we can come up with something that works for us, then it is up to them to solve it internally
+[21:17:55] <@dilfridge> well you know how well this works from our current discussion
+[21:18:05] <@leio> so the takeaway here is that I can go and start adding my own company copyright notices below Gentoo Authors?..
+[21:18:09] <+robbat2> until such time as it is decided, is everybody ok with multiline attribution? it's not just SIE adding it
+[21:18:17] <@ulm> leio: nope
+[21:18:35] <@leio> double standards?
+[21:18:44] <@dilfridge> I'm not too happy about it in either case.
+[21:18:46] -*- leio has his devils advocate hat on
+[21:18:57] <@ulm> you can replace Gentoo Authors by a traditional notice, and add your name to it
+[21:19:29] <@leio> but Gentoo Authors line + SIE line is what util-linux has.
+[21:19:41] <@ulm> but of course you SHOULDN'T (with RFC 2119 meaning)
+[21:19:42] <@dilfridge> I think right now the only question is "what do we precisely do until the next council meeting"
+[21:20:01] <@dilfridge> and if it's only that, I dont care
+[21:20:16] <@ulm> leio: see summary of the bug :)
+[21:20:21] <@K_F> GLEP 76 is in action as it is, so it is not permitted until it is changed
+[21:20:26] <@dilfridge> but until then we should come up with a workable policy and vote on it
+[21:21:01] <+robbat2> K_F: GLEP-76 as worded doesn't prohibit multiline; so it does permit it
+[21:21:27] <@K_F> robbat2: I disagree, it says that "All copyrightable files included in Gentoo projects must contain appropriate copyright and license notices, as defined by this policy."
+[21:21:35] <@leio> _as defined by this policy_
+[21:21:36] <@K_F> and the policy only define 2 alternatives
+[21:21:37] <@ulm> robbat2: it forbids mixing simplified and non-simplified, though
+[21:21:51] <@leio> I read that multi-line is not allowed in either case
+[21:21:58] <@K_F> me too
+[21:22:00] <@dilfridge> as I read it it forbids multi-line
+[21:22:00] <@Whissi> ack
+[21:22:23] <@WilliamH> We shouldn't vote on anything today.
+[21:22:25] <+robbat2> i agree mixing them is disallowed, but not multiline non-simplified
+[21:22:35] <@dilfridge> there are two alternatives given, and both are single-line
+[21:22:47] <@ulm> I'd be somewhat generous for the traditional notice, to avoid overlong lines
+[21:22:51] <@leio> + _as defined by this policy_ == glep 76
+[21:23:03] <@leio> yeah, but multiple line single notice is fine
+[21:23:19] <@leio> that's just wrapping
+[21:23:38] <@K_F> yes, I'd agree that is pragmatic reading for wrapping
+[21:23:42] <@ulm> preferably, wrap it in the middle of a company's name :p
+[21:24:05] -*- ulm just kidding
+[21:24:13] <+robbat2> (i have to leave shortly for my kids)
+[21:24:20] <@leio> so that bug remains open as a GLEP violation and we don't do anything about it until next meeting?
+[21:24:43] <@ulm> I won't press for a vote today
+[21:24:56] <@WilliamH> It's a questionable violation.
+[21:24:58] <@WilliamH> at best.
+[21:25:07] <@ulm> it's crystal clear
+[21:25:09] <@leio> I'm sorry, but it is a clear violation, two of them.
+[21:25:18] <@leio> one of them not so clear, but the Authors + explicit is clear violation
+[21:25:19] <@dilfridge> voting today makes no sense
+[21:25:37] <@leio> I suspect we might end up with a dozen more violations by next meeting though
+[21:25:41] <@leio> if that's fine; fine
+[21:25:46] <+robbat2> there are already more violations than SIE
+[21:25:51] <@leio> example?
+[21:25:56] <@WilliamH> ck-sources
+[21:26:11] <@leio> there is no violation in ck-sources.
+[21:26:26] <@WilliamH> There are others listed on the bug
+[21:26:47] <@ulm> ck-sources are fine by GLEP 76, only against tree policy
+[21:26:57] <+robbat2> 'diff ck-sources-4.14.{69,71}.ebuild', and tell me if that should have been counted as a main contributor?
+[21:27:11] <@ulm> but might be that they were committed before tree policy was active
+[21:27:35] <@leio> None of them are violations - not counting potentially main contributor being wrong
+[21:27:52] <@WilliamH> What about
+[21:28:13] <@ulm> robbat2: kuzetsa has maintained it for a long time, so might be that she's the main contributor by now
+[21:28:49] <@ulm> (but I haven't done an audit of it)
+[21:28:54] <@leio> WilliamH: none of those mix Gentoo Authors and a certain contributor name; and none of them are multiple notices.
+[21:30:20] <@WilliamH> WRT Sony, Sony Mobile and Sony Imageworks are already contributors to open source.
+[21:31:14] <+robbat2> i have to go for my kids now; can't stay longer
+[21:31:58] <@leio> Lets continue with this outside meeting in a proper pace then.
+[21:32:00] <@leio> Next up - open floor
+[21:32:53] -*- Whissi has nothing for open floor
+[21:34:36] -*- leio prepares the gavel...
+[21:36:57] <@leio> ok, meeting over, thanks all :)
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